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The truth about organ donation

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I would like to bring this thread back from the old forum as I consider it important ....

 

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Posted by aurum here : https://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=310254

 

I've just been reading about this and I'm so shocked- I had absolutely no clue about it- so thought I'd share the info on here.

It's literally like something out of a horror sci-fi movie.

I just presumed, as you do, that if you'd agreed to be a donor (or your family agree on your behalf), then after you'd died they would remove the organs, pack them with ice or whatever and that's how it went.

Well, no!!

They have to keep you alive in order to remove the organs- but because you've been pronounced medically dead (brain stem dead) they don't have to use any anaesthesia- they just inject a muscle relaxant to ensure you don't move!! Once the heart has been removed then you're obviously dead, but it needs to keep beating up to the point of removal.

So what are you giving up when you agree to organ donation (or don't specifically elect to 'opt out' as in Wales)? Your organs, of course—but also much more. You’re also giving up your right to informed consent. Doctors don’t have to tell you or your relatives what they will do to your body during an organ harvest operation because you’ll be dead, with no legal rights.

e.g., This linked article tells about people who are declared dead but still have enough brain function to feel pain:http://www.jbbardot.com/lose-sign-or...card-shocking/

http://www.hangthebankers.com/why-yo...n-organ-donor/

 

Quote:
Prior to 1968 a person was declared dead only after their breathing and heart stopped for a determinate period of time.

The current terminology "Brain Death" was unheard of.
When surgeons realized they had the capability of taking organs from one seemingly “close to death” person and implanting them into another person to keep the recipient alive longer, a "Pandora’s Box" was opened.

In the beginning, through trial and error, they discovered it was not possible to perform this "miraculous" surgery with organs taken from someone truly dead, even if the donor was without circulation for merely a few minutes, because organ damage occurs within a very brief time after circulation stops.

To justify their experimental procedures it was necessary for them to come up with a solution which is how the term "BrainDeath" was contrived.

Much is being done to get your organs.
For an organ to be suitable for transplantation; it must be healthy and it must come from a living person.
Once DBD (Donation After Brain Death) or DCD (Donation After Cardiac Death) has been verified and permission extracted from distraught family members (in cases where relatives cannot be located the often now makes the determination on our behalf) the "organ donor" undergoes hours, sometimes days, of torturous treatment utilized to protect and preserve the body-container of "spare parts!"

The "organ donor" is forced to endure the excruciating painful and ongoing chemical treatment in preparation for organ excising.

Literally the "donor" is now an organ warehouse and used for the sole purpose of organ preservation until a compatible recipient can be located.

Donation after circulatory death (DCD) can be performed on neurologically intact donors who do not fulfill neurologic or brain death criteria before circulatory arrest. This commentary focuses on the most controversial donor-related issues anticipated from mandatory implementation of DCD for imminent or cardiac death in hospitals across the USA.

The truth of the horrific treatment and DEATH OF THE "DONOR"
Organ removal is performed while the patient is given only a paralyzing agent but no anesthetic!

Multi-organ excision, on the average, takes three to four hours of operating during which time the heart is beating, the blood pressure is normal and respiration is occurring albeit the patient is on a ventilator. Each organ is cut out until finally the beating heart is stopped, a moment before removal.

It is well documented the heart rate and blood pressure go up when the incision is made. This is the very response the anesthesiologist often observes in everyday surgery when the anesthetic is insufficient. But, as stated below, organ donors are not anesthetized.

There are growing numbers of protesters among and anesthesiologists, who react strongly to the movements of the supposed "corpse." These movements are sometimes so violent it makes it impossible to continue the taking of organs. Resulting from their personal experiences and attestations, many in the medical profession have removed themselves from this program altogether.

New York hospitals are routinely 'harvesting' organs from patients before they're even dead, an explosive lawsuit is claiming.

The suit accuses transplant non-profit The New York Organ Donor Network of bullying doctors into declaring patients brain dead when they are still alive.

Plaintiff, Patrick McMahon, 50, reckons one in five are showing signs of brain activity when surgeons declare them dead and start hacking out their body parts.

'They're playing God,' said McMahon, a former transplant coordinator who claims he was fired just four months into the role for speaking out about the practice.
He said that the donor network makes 'millions and millions' from selling the organs they obtain to hospitals and to insurance companies for transplants.
'Hearts, lungs, kidneys, joints, bones, skin grafts, intestines, valves, eyes -- it's all big money.'

The Air Force Combat veteran and former nurse added that financially strained hospitals are easily influenced to declare a patient brain dead because they're keen to free up bed space.

The lawsuit, filed in Manhattan Supreme Court in 2012, cites a 19-year-old car crash victim who was still struggling to breathe and showing signs of brain activity when doctors gave the green light for his organs to be harvested.

Network officials including director Michael Goldstein allegedly bullied Nassau University Medical Center staff into declaring the teen dead, stating during a conference call: 'This kid is dead, you got that?'
But McMahon said he believed the 19-year-old could have recovered.

The lawsuit cites three other examples of patients who were still clinging to life when doctors gave a 'note' - an official declaration by a hospital that a patient is brain dead, which, as well as consent from next of kin, is required before a transplant can take place.

The suit claims that a man was admitted to Kings County Hospital in Brooklyn, a month later, again showing brain activity.

It claims McMahon protested but was blown off by hospital and donor network staff, and the man was declared brain dead and his organs harvested.

In November 2011, a woman admitted to Staten Island University Hospital after a drug overdose was declared brain dead and her organs were about to be harvested when McMahon noticed that she was being given 'a paralyzing anesthetic' because her body was still jerking.
'She was having brain function when they were cutting into her on the table,' McMahon told MailOnline.
'He had given her a paralyser and there's no reason to give someone who is dead a paralyser.'
He said he confronted the person who gave it to her and he was speechless.
'Finally he said he was told to do it because while they were cutting her chest open she was moving her chest around.
And a paralyzer only paralyses you, it does nothing for the pain,' he said.
McMahon added that surgeons 'took everything' with regards to body parts.

'They took her eyes, her joints. She was right there when I was having the conversation. They were inserting the plastic bones where the real ones had been.'

According to the lawsuit, when McMahon probed further on the disturbing case another network employee told hospital staff he was 'an untrained troublemaker with a history of raising frivolous issues and questions.'

McMahon added that staff members who collect the most organs throughout the year qualify for a Christmas bonus.
'If counselors do well by getting a lot of organs they are given a bonus in December,' he said.

The veteran - who worked at the donor network between July and November - said there are about 30-40 staff who are out in the field, going to hospitals and trying to get signatures and donations.

Estimated U.S. Average Billed Charges Per Transplant: Heart $1,000,000 Double Lung: $800,000 Liver: $580,000 Kidney: $275,000

More than 123,000 people are on waiting lists for organ transplants in the United States, 100,000 of whom are waiting for new kidneys. Yet the need for healthy organs far outpaces donations. Only 28,000 transplants were completed in the last year, according to the 2014 national data from the U.S. Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network.

Because organ donors are often alive when their organs are harvested, the community should not require donors to be declared dead, but instead adopt more “honest” moral criteria that allow the harvesting of organs from “dying” or “severely injured” patients, with proper consent, three leading experts have argued.

This approach, they say, would avoid the “pseudo-objective” claim that a donor is “really dead,” which is often based upon purely ideological definitions of death designed to expand the organ donor pool, and would allow organ harvesters to be more honest with the public, as well as ensure that donors don’t feel pain during the harvesting process.

The chilling comments were offered by Doctor Neil Lazar, director of the medical-surgical intensive care unit at Toronto General Hospital, Dr. Maxwell J. Smith of the University of Toronto, and David Rodriguez-Arias of Universidad del Pais Vasco in Spain, at a U.S. bioethics conference in October and published in a recent paper in the American Journal of Bioethics.
“Because there is a general assumption that dead individuals cannot be harmed, veneration of the dead-donor rule is dangerously misleading,” they write.
“Ultimately, what is important for the protection and respect of potential donors is not to have a death certificate signed, but rather to be certain they are beyond suffering and to guarantee that their autonomy is respected.”

Instead of the so-called Dead Donor Rule (DDR), the authors propose that donors should be “protected from harm” (i.e given anesthesia so that they cannot feel pain during the donation process), that informed consent should be obtained, and that society should be “fully informed of the inherently debatable nature of any criterion to declare death.”

The doctors note that developing the criteria for so-called “brain death,” which is often used by doctors to declare death before organ donation, was an “ideological strategy” aimed at increasing the donor pool that has been found to be “empirically and theoretically flawed.” They also criticize the latest attempts to create new, even looser definitions of death, such as circulatory death, which they argue amount to simply “pretending” that the patient is dead in order to get his organs.

Based on an interview in 2013 with Dr. Paul Byrne, 80-year-old neonatologist blowing the whistle on the dark side of hospitals, it became clear that the concept of "brain death" is a complete fabrication conjured up for the sole purpose of legitimizing the murder of living people in order to harvest their organs.
These people (who often end up in hospitals as a result of car accidents or drug overdoses or the like) are given paralysis drugs during organ removal -- BUT NO ANESTHESIA!!!

Medical staff are literally cleaving open the chests of these innocent people and tearing out their organs, one by one, leaving the heart for last, after which point they are, of course, dead.

It's wakey wakey time people.This is no joke.

If you do not want to be tortured to death by medical sadists, SAY NO TO ORGAN DONATION! Evil is still evil by any other name.

A special thanks to Sandra Tsai for making us aware of pending lawsuits & information.

More News on: [link to www.theillusionofscience.org]

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
[link to www.srtr.org]
[link to www.cdc.gov]
[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
[link to www.everydayhealth.com]
[link to www.srtr.org]
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Posted by aurum:

know that it's a disturbing thing which we don't wish to think about- but holy hell's bells I'm glad I found this out!! I'd always just gone along with the donor thing, thinking I'll be dead anyway, I won't care... But I've now signed the register to opt OUT.

https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/reg...donation-form/

Two car wreck victims arrive at A&E with equal chances of surviving but one is a donor. Who would the doctors choose to keep alive?

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Posted by baboshka1:

 

Aye its shocking the doner organ industry and the money that is involed.

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aurum:

 

It's the fact that you could still be 'alive' and feeling pain, yet unable to move whilst they descend like vultures to harvest your organs!!!

Honestly, I thought I'd heard it all. I thought nothing could shock me anymore.

All these things in life which we don't really like to think about- that's what they rely on- our ignorance! And they always dress it up to sound all loving and benevolent- they use people's good will and desire to help others as a means to exploit every last serviceable part of you.

Horrifying.

http://www.j-lorber.de/tod/sterben/organspende.htm

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baboshka1:

 

I watched this movie while on a plane and I thought it was horrible movie.
Never Let Me Go
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1334260/?ref_=ttmd_md_nm
People cannot support or help each other alive you think some are gona care that you are only slightly dead?
Huge amount of money in this and thats the problem. Repo men was another intersting movie.

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aurum:

 

Quote:
Stephen Thorpe, then 17, was placed in a medically-induced coma following a multi-car pileup that had already taken the life of his friend Matthew, who was driving the vehicle.

Although a team of four physicians insisted that his son was “brain-dead” following the wreck, Thorpe’s father enlisted the help of a general practitioner and a neurologist, who demonstrated that his son still had brain wave activity. The doctors agreed to bring him out of the coma, and five weeks later Thorpe left the hospital, having almost completely recovered.

Today, the 21-year-old with “brain damage” is studying accounting at a local university.

In 2011, the Quebec Hospital Sainte Croix de Drummondville sought permission to extract the eyes of a patient who had choked on hospital food in the absence of a nurse, claiming she was “brain dead.” After the family demanded proof from physicians of her alleged condition, she regained consciousness, and recovered most of her faculties. The family declared its intention to sue the hospital.

In 2008, a 45-year-old Frenchman revived on the operating table as doctors prepared to “harvest” his organs for donation, following cardiac arrest. In the subsequent investigation by the hospital’s ethics committee, a number of doctors admitted that such cases, while rare, were well known to them.

That same year, a “brain dead” 21-year-old American, Zack Dunlap, was about to have his organs harvested when his two sisters, both nurses, decided to test the hospital’s theory that his brain was no longer functioning. Family members poked his feet with a knife and dug their fingernails under his nails, provoking strong reactions by Dunlap and proving he was conscious. He recovered completely. He later related that he was conscious and aware as doctors discussed harvesting his organs in his presence.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/da...s-organs-boy-r

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empath:

 

Great read!rose.gif The 'organ donation' tick box that seems to be on every bit of paperwork these days has always made me feel uneasy. Reading your post, it's good to actually read about the process and what's involved. Linking it to insurance companies for transplants etc.. I've been seeing the emergence of 'transplant needed' posts/articles etc.. recently - not saying the people don't need them but I don't remember hearing about it as aggressively until recently.

I'm not really shocked that organs are extracted whilst the person is 'alive' - if profit is involved then there is no competition in the system's eyes.. or 'eye' should I saycough.gif

peace.gif
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ramirez:

 

Yep I was thinking about this the other week, I am not on any list but I know people who are and damn right it is a concern, I just generally had doubts, mainly because of the vast profits to be made though. That said if done right it would be at least as far as we know ok. But that info is shocking but enlightening at the same time.

So on the NOT to do list as it stands regarding my spacesuit and equipment.

No Organ donation
Secular burial, no Churches involved

I find it a tad disturbing that Churches have musical Organs also, ok maybe that is a bit far fetched, but there is a lot in a word in a certain context.

Sorry went off on a bit of a tangent but I literally had these exact thoughts just the other day, I would not go as far as to say it is the right move, but trusting the Medical Mafia along with the 'we do sod all for spirituality Church' it sure seems the right move to me and I find that sad, but it is how I see it, we have been lied to so much that going along with any protocol is madness. In a inverted world, swim against the tide !

Plus how bad would it be if a Rockefeller ended up with YOUR heart. That twat David Rockefeller has had six now, the sicko.

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aurum:

 

 

I think that this information is incredibly important to know!! In fact, possibly some of the most important information I've ever come across, in terms of what WILL happen if you neglect to inform yourself what this could mean, for YOU.

Years ago, before I ever became suspicious about the 'conspiracy' side of things, I read a book by Iain Banks called The Bridge, which describes the 'inner' world of a man after he's been in a terrible car accident and is comatose/unconscious...

I've always been fascinated by what might be going on 'behind the scenes' when people are in a coma, or under anaesthesia etc. There are so many accounts relating coma patients experiences of being 'conscious' and able to hear everything, despite being physically inert and 'dead' to the untrained eye. Similarly with anaesthesia, it has been found that the subconscious remains active- and continues to absorb information spoken by the doctors etc- the mind is truly a fascinating thing which we've barely even begun to fully understand.

The point being, this new definition of 'death'- relating to the activity of the brain stem - just isn't anywhere near sufficient!! This is so important to understand! Why do they need to use paralysing agents on a 'dead' body?? Why does the supposedly 'dead' body resist being operated on??

Fuuuuuuckkkkkk thaaaaaaat.

And like you say Ramirez, who's to say that your bits and bobs are even going to the most deserving person? Do we really trust the processes which determine who's top of the waiting list?

Not only that, there's also a spiritual component, too- there have been studies done relating how donor recipients can acquire certain traits of the donor- particularly in cases of heart transplant- again, utterly fascinating but also concerning in terms of who actually ends up with your organs and what that means in terms of your own spiritual 'karma' or whatever you want to call it...

I can't believe that I never even thought twice about it before yesterday- you just think it's the benevolent thing to do and that it makes you an altruistic caring person- I always felt guilted into ticking the organ donor box!!!

Now that I actually understand what is involved, and that they literally strip you down for parts taking near enough everything- I'm sorry but no, not happening. Apparently in the fine print it mentions the right to use your body for other medical purposes if no matching recipients are available- I've done some of those anatomy classes at Uni, and heard the stories... Again, no thankyou very much.

How is it that so many ancient cultures revered the death process and held it utterly sacred- and yet here we are in so-called 'modern' society, making those last few moments as horrific and undignified as imaginable? I say last few moments, but they can keep you going for a week or more whilst they wait to schedule the surgeries for the recipients- you're described as a 'Beating Heart Cadaver'.

Holyyyyy Fuuuuuccckkkk!!

Sorry, but no. Just NO!!

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kizzie:

 

I have always had a donor card.. Sod that

Its like something from a nightmare and there we are thinking its a kindness. Going to have to rethink it in case i'm not really dead.

Why is nothing ever simple and straight forward.

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aurum:

 

The Beating Heart Donors
They urinate. They have heart attacks and bedsores. They have babies. They may even feel pain. Meet the organ donors who are “pretty dead.”

http://discovermagazine.com/2012/may...g-heart-donors
 

Quote:
So what drove the Harvard Ad Hoc Committee to turn back the calendar and construct a lower standard for death? To a growing number of scientific critics it appears that the committee was fixated on freeing up human organs for transplant.

...Today the transplant industry is a $20 billion per year business.

...The only people who do not get a share of the transplant wealth are the most essential: the donors and their families. By law, they are the only ones who cannot be compensated.

...Organ transplants would be peripheral to the story of death if they were what the organ trade claimed them to be: the neat extraction of body parts from totally dead, unfeeling corpses. But it is more complicated and messier than that. The grisly facts compiled in this article are not an attempt to derail organ transplantation—an impossible task, given how entrenched the industry is—but knowledge that has been gained from the medical establishment’s obsession with recycling the bodies of people who are, in the words of Dr. Michael DeVita of the University of Pittsburgh’s Medical Center, only “pretty dead.”

...A brain-dead organ donor’s brain stem is also down—but we do not know, given the limitations of the Harvard criteria and their focus entirely on the brain stem, what is going on with the donor’s cerebral cortex or everything beyond the brain stem.

Anesthesiologists have been at the forefront of questioning the finality of brain death and whether beating-heart cadavers truly are unfeeling, unaware corpses. They have also begun wondering about what a “pretty dead” donor may experience during a three- to five-hour harvest sans anesthetic, and they are speaking out on the subject.

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getagrip:

 

SYRACUSE, NY, July 9, 2013 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A woman who was pronounced brain dead by doctors unexpectedly woke up just as her organs were about to be removed for transplant.

Doctors at St. Joseph's Hospital Health Center were called on the carpet by the state Health Department for not properly determining if Colleen S. Burns was actually dead before they sought permission from her family to harvest her organs and scheduled the procedure.

Burns, 41, of Syracuse, New York, was taken to hospital in October 2009 after a drug overdose.

Doctors believed she had suffered irreversible brain damage and was on the point of death, but it later came to light that she was in fact in a deep drug-induced coma.

Link

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aurum:

 

If you ever have moments where you question whether ignorance truly is bliss... Remember this information and be damn glad you didn't sign yourself up to be operated on, without anaesthetic, in your dying moments.

The implications of this are about as horrific as I can imagine.

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aurum:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by getagrip View Post
SYRACUSE, NY, July 9, 2013 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A woman who was pronounced brain dead by doctors unexpectedly woke up just as her organs were about to be removed for transplant.

Doctors at St. Joseph's Hospital Health Center were called on the carpet by the state Health Department for not properly determining if Colleen S. Burns was actually dead before they sought permission from her family to harvest her organs and scheduled the procedure.

Burns, 41, of Syracuse, New York, was taken to hospital in October 2009 after a drug overdose.

Doctors believed she had suffered irreversible brain damage and was on the point of death, but it later came to light that she was in fact in a deep drug-induced coma.

Link

Can you imagine if they'd already administered the paralysing agents at that point? She was ALIVE. She wouldn't have been able to signal that fact to the doctors. They use no anaesthetic.

I know I'm banging on about this but I'm absolutely shocked, horrified and utterly appalled- I had no idea. None.

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aurum:

 

Compare this to how the ancient Egyptians cared for the dead, for example. I'm massively intrigued by some of these ancient rituals, and where the understanding for them came from... I absolutely do believe that they had a far higher knowledge and understanding of the transition from physical to spiritual, an utterly sacred event which would involve years of preparation.

The ancient Egyptians would carefully remove the internal organs of the DECEASED, treat them with a natron solution and place them into four separate canopic jars that would also have significant spiritual meaning. The organs that were treated and saved were the lungs, stomach, liver and intestines. The kidneys and the heart which were considered the “seat of intelligence and sentiment” were left in the body. Starting with the Fifth and Sixth Dynasty pyramids, these canopic jars were placed into a separate stone compartment of the burial chambers.

What did the ancients understand about the sanctity of this process, that we obviously do not??

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aurum:

 

From the 'Beating Heart Cadavers' article linked above:
 
Quote:
Gail A. Van Norman, a professor of anesthesiology and bioethics at the University of Washington, cites some disturbing cases.

In one, an anesthesiologist administered a drug to a BHC to treat an episode of tachycardia during a harvest. The donor began to breathe spontaneously just as the surgeon removed his liver. The anesthesiologist reviewed the donor’s chart and found that he had gasped at the end of an apnea test, but a neurosurgeon had declared him dead anyway.

In another case, a 30-year-old patient with severe head trauma was declared brain dead by two doctors. Preparations were made to excise his organs. The on-call anesthesiologist noted that the beating-heart cadaver was breathing spontaneously, but the declaring physicians said that because he was not going to recover he could be declared dead. The harvest proceeded over the objections of the anesthesiologist, who saw the donor move and react to the scalpel with hypertension that had to be treated. It was in vain since the proposed liver recipient died before he could get the organ, which went untransplanted.

And in a third instance, a young woman suffered seizures several hours after delivering her baby. A neurologist said it was a “catastrophic neurologic event,” and she was readied for harvest. At that time the anesthesiologist found that she had small yet reactive pupils, weak corneal reflexes, and a weak gag reflex. After treatment, “the patient coughed, grimaced, and moved all extremities.” She regained consciousness. She suffered significant neurologic deficits but was alert and oriented.
 

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huyi:

 

This is horrifying, and i thought that donating your organs was a good thing.

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aurum:

 

 
Originally Posted by huyi View Post
This is horrifying, and i thought that donating your organs was a good thing.

Well it is a good thing, for the recipient obviously... It just might not prove to be such a good thing for you, when decisions are being made as to whether to keep you alive. The sad truth is that as a donor, you're worth far more dead than alive.

The main point is how doctors are determining a patient's prognosis- obviously if you were actually dead, you'd be a useless candidate for organ donation. So the point is that to be a donor, you have to still be alive. Which means that you could very well be signing your own death warrant, by volunteering for donation.

I studied neuroscience and it's ridiculous to call a patient clinically dead just because their brain stem appears to be compromised- as the research shows, many many patients still have higher cortical activity and many subsequently recover. Many patients also subsequently report having been fully aware of everything going on around them- they were just unable to connect with their bodies to PROVE that they're still 'in there'.

That's the terrifying aspect- that you're conscious and aware but unable to prove it. And once you've been declared 'dead', even though you're actually not dead obviously because your body is still functioning and your heart is still beating etc., but once they say you're dead that's it- as long as your relatives consent, you'll be off for harvesting! With no anaesthetic!! But a muscle relaxant to stop you from thrashing around!!

I've read quite a few accounts of people who've worked in the field and say that knowing what they now know, in terms of just how thorough they are at stripping away everything they can, there's just no way they'd provide their consent for it.

It's about informed consent, and that's what this information's about- we don't like to think about it, but if you're informed of the realities then at least you can make an educated decision for yourself or another family member, instead of succumbing to emotional blackmail.

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empath:

 

It is very intriguing! I might give The Bridge a read smile.gif similar to near-death experiences where the 'dead' patient can 'see' or 'hear' if you like. Adding organ extraction to that is frightening. My mother, who is in no way interested in anything outside the box recently told me that when she had my younger sister her heart had stopped three times. On the third time, she said she heard my voice and others calling her back. Then she was. She has only said this once and is embarrassed by it. This like thousands of other stories back up that something isn't as it seems when a patient is pronounced 'dead' in a hospital

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aurum:

 

Yep, I mean take someone like Stephen Hawking, for example. If he didn't have that machine connected up to his cheek muscle, he'd have no way of actually communicating that he was anything other than someone in a vegetative state! Yet clearly his mind is as lucid and conscious as anyone else's- it's just that his body doesn't reflect this.

Appearances can be deceptive. To my mind, you're dead once your body has packed in- your heart has stopped, your breathing ceases and 'you' slip away- Elvis has left the building. But in these 'brain-stem death' instances, that hasn't necessarily happened- 'you' could still be in there, whilst your body has temporarily shut up shop to recuperate. Elvis has NOT left the building- and yet you're regarded as 'dead' anyway. Then, because of a box you once ticked (or didn't tick, in the case of presumed consent), you're now being wheeled off into surgery for organ removal minus any anaesthetic!

The fact that heart rate and blood pressure massively increase upon the first incision, and they require paralytic drugs to stop the body from moving, is horrifying! There's also a hugely spiritual argument- if you believe in the notion of an animating lifeforce- call it consciousness or spirit or soul, it would appear that this has not yet left the body of these supposedly 'pretty dead' patients- if it had, then they would indeed be 'dead'- which would leave organ donation null and void.

There is still residual lifeforce within the body, the patient is not dead, and the doctor makes that determination instead. Scary stuff.

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aurum:

 

Couple more links:
 

Quote:
"I found your article today very interesting," wrote Angie Romano. "I live just outside of Toledo, Ohio. One of my sisters is a surgical nurse. She told me several years ago she would never want any of her family members to be an organ donor after what she has seen. (We have a brother-in-law alive today because of a kidney transplant he received, so we totally understand the double-edged sword that this presents.) She said that the times when she had been in the surgery room during organ harvesting, she has seen patients in definite pain when the harvesting begins. She said you can see it on their faces and it is horrible. I don't know what the answer is, just that it is a difficult situation. My sister has since transferred to a different hospital where they do not do the same type of trauma level work as was done at the first hospital. It seems like it is a similar situation as hospice care. Another sister is a cardiac nurse. She explained to me how, even though morphine is given to relieve pain in a terminal patient, at some point the medical personnel know that the next dose of morphine will overwhelm the patient's respiratory system and they will die. But we give it to them anyway to keep them comfortable. Modern science is such a blessing, but it comes with so many new sets of moral issues."

http://www.spiritdaily.net/organdonors2.htm
 

Quote:
In other words: brain "death" is not always death.

In fact, the bodies of brain-dead people -- known as "beating-heart cadavers" -- can heal wounds, fight infections, and respond to certain stimuli. Brain-dead pregnant women can gestate a baby. There have been at least twenty-two such documented cases. Healthy babies have been born to them (one pregnant woman was kept alive for 107 days to have her child).

Most people don't realize that "dead" donors are frequently kept on a ventilator so the organs remain fresh. Their hearts are often defibrillated. Their kidneys are treated. They urinate. Fluids are administered to avoid incipient diabetes. It is a new obsession, frets Dr. Michael DeVita of the University of Pittsburgh's Medical Center: recycling the bodies of people who (in his chilling words) are only "pretty dead."

This is very serious spiritual territory.

...And we need to remember one thing, stated by one of the greatest brain surgeons in history: all of the brain may be in the mind, but not all of the mind is in the brain.

http://www.spiritdaily.net/organdonors.htm

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huyi:

 

yeah it's shocking, i was willing to donate my organs when i die for a good cause but if i'm going to be still live like this then no way, jesus.

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aurum:

 

ou have to be alive for them to do it. So you also have to already be alive (functional body, not yet dead) for them to make that determination. In other words, you are not dead when that decision is made- you are maybe on life-support, and PRESUMED dead in functional terms (but not necessarily in terms of consciousness, because they don't check for higher brain function!)

Maybe you truly have 'left the building'- but maybe you haven't. No-one can say, because we simply don't understand the intricacies of brain trauma. Either way, you are certainly kept 'alive' once the agreement for donation has been made, up to the point that your heart is removed- could be a few days, could take a week or more. Beep... Beep... Beeeeeeeeep....

It's up to the individual to decide how far they're willing to trust doctors with that medical prognosis.

That's the truth of it. And people should understand that.

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derekbuttery:

 

even though its quite disturbing, they need to keep the organs living. This gives the organ a longer 'shelf life' (for transportation etc...). Muscle relaxant is cheaper than anaesthetic. Self explanatory. As for feeling pain etc., I'd say this is complete conjecture on the OP's part and has to be taken on a case by case basis.

That said, NOT ALL transplants are conducted this way, and yes sometimes they plug you back in to keep the body alive when there is no brain activity.


(Here, blood is the big issue. Families will argue about keeping someone alive a little longer in order for legal documents to be changed. This can take literally gallons of blood per week to keep a 99 yr old alive, when more often than not the same blood could've been used to keep xx folks alive in ER!! (First come first served basis here in BC and Manitoba!!)

I don't carry a card. Never have, never will. Same with blood. It's mine. I'll keep it thanks. However, having lived through the whole BSE in the UK we're not allowed to donate blood, nor organs!! BUT can go on a list if needed AND will body part to blood-line family members is so desired!!)

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huyi:

 

Here's to hoping that a more humane way to get organs comes along, I've read that one day we will be able to 3D print organs for donators and there will be no rejection either, i hope that day comes, organ donation shortages is a real concern for people that need it.

Here is a example of what this kind of technology could bring;
http://www.livescience.com/53721-3d-...ones-ears.html

Stem cell research could also advance this technology further.

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