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3 minutes ago, zArk said:

true, so i would ask who exactly wrote the GoThomas?

if we take as face value the dating around 180 -- 250 a.d then we have a 150 year minimum gap between living jesus and the record of his words

 

that for me is a questionable source

 

I have no idea.

 

In the past I've watched some lengthy debates on youtube between pro-Jesus and anti-Jesus scholars on the dating of certain Gospels etc. Interesting stuff and it seems that a lot of the dating for these texts isn't cut-and-dried.

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Just now, I am I said:

Yep, and the Bible was written when?  Can't have it all ways when it suits.

 

well the Bible is a collection of 'books' which can be shown to be copies of jewish text and copies of other works but yes, i recognise the inherent difficulty in taking a translated, revised and copied text as an accurate 1st or 3rd hand account of something

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, size of light said:

it seems that a lot of the dating for these texts isn't cut-and-dried.

oh yes, modern scholars are incredibly adverse to structuralist approaches.

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My take on these works is I know we have been lied to for millennia, I know we are not meant to know too many truths, just tidbits. The truths we may be given are extremely obscure. There are those that know the whole truths.

 

If we knew the whole truths, we as a race would never allow those with this knowledge to have such dominion over us.

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50 minutes ago, Screamingeagle said:

how the hell did you make that post so quickly ink 😊

 

Jeez!! How do some people type so fast ,,, :classic_ohmy:

 

Jim-Carrey-Fast-typingvvv_zpscdpbq9y9.gi

 

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14 hours ago, I am I said:

My take on these works is I know we have been lied to for millennia, I know we are not meant to know too many truths, just tidbits. The truths we may be given are extremely obscure. There are those that know the whole truths.

 

If we knew the whole truths, we as a race would never allow those with this knowledge to have such dominion over us.

 

i'll have a look at my apocrypha and try and refamiliarise myself with the gospel of thomas to try and make a meaningful contribution to the thread

 

I'm just curious what you mean when you say 'we as a race'?

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13 minutes ago, muir said:

 

i'll have a look at my apocrypha and try and refamiliarise myself with the gospel of thomas to try and make a meaningful contribution to the thread

 

I'm just curious what you mean when you say 'we as a race'?

 

 I´m curious why Ink deleted Mr Anderson´s reply.

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15 minutes ago, Golden Retriever said:

I´m curious why Ink deleted Mr Anderson´s reply.

 

i've not really been following this discussion but my current belief is that there were objections from some quarters

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5 minutes ago, muir said:

 

i've not really been following this discussion but my current belief is that there were objections from some quarters

 

 If you´ve not been following the discussion, where does your belief come from?

 

Mr Anderson´s comment was removed. I can´t remember exactly what he said. His comment should be visible in actions by Ink?

 

Edited by Golden Retriever

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34 minutes ago, Golden Retriever said:

 If you´ve not been following the discussion, where does your belief come from?

 

Mr Anderson´s comment was removed. I can´t remember exactly what he said. His comment should be visible in actions by Ink?

 

when the thread was frozen there was a temporary notice from ink

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1 hour ago, muir said:

 

when the thread was frozen there was a temporary notice from ink

 

And deleted comments, which you don´t like to happen on an open forum?

 

 

Edited by Golden Retriever

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1 hour ago, Golden Retriever said:

And deleted comments, which you don´t like to happen on an open forum?

 

apparently so

 

like i say i'm not involved in this in anyway GR. All i'm doing now is seeking clarity over something someone said in this thread so that i can understand what point they are trying to make

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8 hours ago, Golden Retriever said:

 

 If you´ve not been following the discussion, where does your belief come from?

 

Mr Anderson´s comment was removed. I can´t remember exactly what he said. His comment should be visible in actions by Ink?

 

 

My comment hit a home run

 

* looks off into the distance as the ball.flies.out of the park * 

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3 minutes ago, MrA said:

 

My comment hit a home run

 

* looks off into the distance as the ball.flies.out of the park * 

 

Mr A can you send me the deleted post by PM, to see how and what created the panic.

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4 minutes ago, MrA said:

My comment hit a home run

 

Yep .... that member and another asked for their accounts to be deleted .... and then it took me another 2 hours to clean up the mess!

 

So well done.

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Just now, ink said:

 

Yep .... that member and another asked for their accounts to be deleted .... and then it took me another 2 hours to clean up the mess!

 

So well done.

 

Thank you

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11 minutes ago, ink said:

 

Yep .... that member and another asked for their accounts to be deleted .... and then it took me another 2 hours to clean up the mess!

 

So well done.

 

Are they still here?

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Im not sorry either 

 

That same poster told me to adapt or die to the NWO 

 

Just because nobody complains or " reports " things like that ( generally because those on the receiving end are not censorious beings ) doesnt make them any less of a giant poke in the eye

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2 minutes ago, The Apprentice said:

 

Are they still here?

 

One is yet to confirm their want .... but the other is pretty much gone.

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9 minutes ago, MrA said:

Im not sorry either 

 

That same poster told me to adapt or die to the NWO 

 

Just because nobody complains or " reports " things like that ( generally because those on the receiving end are not censorious beings ) doesnt make them any less of a giant poke in the eye

 

Adapt or die, lets see how well they cope if it evers comes to completion, which I hope it does not BTW.

 

This is what normally happens when society fails to recognise the beast in their midst, see at 1.05 its called the road of bones, no bullets or chambers here.

 

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/which-road-is-known-as-the-road-of-bones.html

 

 

 

Edited by The Apprentice
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A discussion on the Gospel of Thomas caused two NWO-plants to request deletion of their accounts?

 

The world is getting more bizarre every day and increasingly I have no idea what the fuck is going on.

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On 11/15/2019 at 10:03 PM, size of light said:

 

I have no idea.

 

In the past I've watched some lengthy debates on youtube between pro-Jesus and anti-Jesus scholars on the dating of certain Gospels etc. Interesting stuff and it seems that a lot of the dating for these texts isn't cut-and-dried.

 

There is no better technique than making up scary stories long before they are realeased, like global warming which was thought up in the early sixties and released 50 years later, those in control have a long line of new ideas and theories yet to come, it simply takes time and whole generations to pass away before they become vogue and pushed without remorse.

 

These magi can wait for as long as they like because they are whole families who are born into the system to do their masters work, unless they get tired and want out of the madness that is.

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On 11/16/2019 at 1:23 AM, ink said:

 

Don't know .... Didn't Jesus say that he didn't come to bring peace but to bring the sword?

 

Yes, and to elaborate on I Am I's comment, I offer an article I wrote about this apparent paradox.

 

 

https://www.truthspoon.com/2017/04/the-adventures-of-jesus-christ-and.html

 

Quote

The Adventures of Jesus Christ and the Sword of Conflict.

 
 
 
sword.jpg
 
 
When Jesus said ‘I did not come to bring peace but a sword’ he was telling the world that conflict is the price of truth. That the world would take up arms against him, his people and his message. We see this culminating in the events of the last century and this century. The Earth has now become a battleground, and it is precisely because this world is not the abode of truth and the resultant turmoil we see is the battle between good and evil, between the truth and lies, which will never settle into each other to develop into harmony, ying can never resolve into yang in harmony, but only to conflict, continual and all consuming. Good and evil are mutually exclusive, ‘the light shines in the darkness and the darkness comprehendeth it not.”

goodevil.jpg

We are on the verge of a huge world war which has been carefully arranged, just as the previous two world wars were carefully tended and grown by the international bankers who ensured that Nazi German had all the funding she required to build up her colossal war machine. The same agents also funded the Soviet Union which was bankrupt and impoverished after her disastrous role in world war one and the 1917 revolution, and millions of dollars of funds were made available to ensure that Stalin’s radical five year plans of industrialization and mechanization, bore the fruit of creating a suitably armed belligerent to aid in the destruction of the Christian world.
 
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And now we live in a world which is on the verge of being torn into pieces again. Yet this time who knows what will remain once the dust and bombs have settled. The first world war left shattered churches in broken towns in Northern France, churned up fields, and a mortal moral wound in the heart of the Christian world from which it has never recovered. The great unspoken thought was that if a Christian people could murder each other on an industrial scale with all the genius of their science turned to making machines and substances designed to rip up and ruin human bodies, then maybe the Christian programme hasn’t worked.

The second world war was merely the end of the long 1918 ceasefire and again all of the malicious genius of science after being given many long years of apparent peace to perfect the art of murder, used its genius to murder on a mass scale, culminating in the nuclear destruction of two Japanese cities. 
 
falling%2Bdominoes%2Bdeception%2B-%2Bv%2Bfor%2Bvendetta.jpg
The Dominoes, Ready to Fall, All Lined-Up by the Hidden Hand.

And now, as of the time of writing and indeed, perhaps for about the past five years, we seem to have entered a final phase for the civilized world, a phase where all the dominoes are now in place, conveniently aligned, entwined and positioned so that the right pleasure applied to the right domino, will set all the pieces tumbling upon each other. While one group remains aloof from the cascading chaos: those who push the domino. They get to observe and watch their handiwork from a vantage point of perfect safety. They are not in amongst the dominoes, they will not fight, or be bombed, except those pawn sacrifices from their group they have decided to use for such a purpose to further their goals and they, like the banker, always win. 

But the true creators of war and conflict are above and beyond the chaos they create. They are the ones who have worked so hard to put all the dominoes in position in order that they might fall all the better, that the least pressure be enough to totally flatten the whole world.

This is because the group setting up the dominoes and preparing to push them all over is at war with Christ and has been trying to kill and persecute Christians and Christian civilisation from the first day of their appearance on Earth, just as they persecuted and had Jesus Christ himself murdered. It is the same people dragging the world to war as those who killed Christ.

We live in a world dominated by the sword. Christ brought the truth to the world for the first time. We now have the word of God and the choice to listen to his voice through the ministry of Jesus, or to ignore that message. 


Unfortunately even the existence of that choice and the presence of the truth of the presence of God, is too much for some people to bear, and they have made it their role, to do what they can to destroy the presence of God and all knowledge of God’s word, even if it means destroying the Earth and all its people.

In the next world there is the eternal turmoil of judgement, which means the transmutation of souls to the next dimension, either into the light, where ‘the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their father’ or ‘into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.’

It is perhaps for this reason, to tackle this potentially inconvenient truth about this world being a crossroads into the next world and our inclinations, inner desires and actions determining which path we take, that the scientific and media consensus is that the next world doesn’t exist and that this world is not in any sense a crossroads but a cul de sac.
 
 

If we can imagine that in the next world our physical body no longer exists, and all we are is the inner being, then all superficial charm and outward personality, have no value and no substance and all that would be left would be the inner desires and inclinations, whatever they may be.

It is often the case that people erect a façade and construct a ‘personality’ with which they negotiate with the physical world. This personality often bears a vast difference between the inner reality of the person and the outward projection so carefully crafted.
  
 
mask.jpg

Unfortunately superficial charm and the crafted personality façade are highly prized on this planet and in many fields are indispensable to success and the ability to rise to a position of controlling influence. Such people by their nature and ability to maintain a steady and reliable personality façade at any time, become highly successful in the media and entertainment and from there, they are able to directly exert a controlling cultural influence over other people.

These cultural figures become mental and cognitive leaders for the people under their influence and their beliefs and values soon become shared by the greater population who no longer think for themselves but absorb the ideas and suggestions of their cultural leaders, whose ideas and beliefs they adopt, under the influence of their superficial charm and their constructed personality.

One often finds the most vociferous voices in the media and science extolling atheism, are those very people who might have something to feel guilty about. For instance both Stephen Fry and Richard Dawkins are atheists who seem to have a very ambiguous position on paedophilia. And so to negate any sense of judgement and to evade the idea that they may be responsible for some immorality they conveniently relegate all such ideas of morality, responsibility, judgement, and even of good and evil itself, to non-existence.

In this way, atheism is a new kind of deception and a very easy way for evil people, or at least, people who have committed some evil, to feel that they can elude any consequences. Of course, the consequences cannot be avoided because you may think you can rewrite the rules of reality, but no doubt such thinking is convenient for these people during their earthly lives, but such thinking often creates attendant problems such as depression, bi-polar disorder, drug abuse and alcoholism, because these people are not dealing with truth and are willfully evading it, the result is discord, depression and a life of confusion where they search for meaning which they have willfully obliterated.

Only Jesus can save such people, but they are so oppressed by their own guilt and that attendant guilt is used to construct the artifice of their atheism, that they have too much personally invested to abandon it to Jesus, besides, such people also, much to their detriment, have built up such a level of adulation, professional respect and kudos that they probably start to believe their own bullshit, since everyone else seems to. It must be a very difficult temptation to resist, to join the mass of the public and believe in the consensual illusion about the grandeur of your own public image.

These are the values stitched into the culture and the people exposed to that culture through the media. The only way to be mentally free from the conditioning is to leave the country and spend several years in an alternative culture, preferably one which has some value and appeal to you, in order to break the conditioning of ones native culture and learn to transcend such conceited television boobies as Stephen Fry. Once one has removed oneself to a suitable vantage point, perhaps just across the English Channel, or some thousands of miles away near the Saharan desert, such people reveal themselves to be nothing but paltry and conceited fools, and merely local phenomena, having nothing of the real wisdom of universality which one can only learn and acquire through extensive travel.

There are other ways to ensure one is not taken-in by the deadly nefarious combination of the TV alpha trance and the charming air of wit and authority which these media demagogues use to spread their own particular values, or lack of them, but they most certainly involve throwing away the television and disdaining any form of mainstream entertainment, but it is very difficult for anyone to truly live in a vacuum within a society, such people soon become seen as eccentrics, or they just don't seem to fit in with other people; not sharing cultural and social cues which people use to build and maintain friendships.

Indeed there was much work undertaken by the Conservative government of the early nineties to expressly ensure that no one had the opportunity to access any alternative lifestyle by the express use of law to shut down alternative ways of living such as that hitherto enjoyed by the travelling community. Such people were a direct threat to the cultural dominance now enjoyed by ‘their’ media and now we all obediently go to work and come home to switch on our TV sets to receive our evening dose of mind and thought control, and cultural conditioning. What’s more we pay a license fee for the privilege, it is all rather too absurd and such absurdities only become apparent once one has achieved the level of ‘perspective’ which travel, free thinking, and throwing away your TV, will bring.

Had Jesus never had his ministry and had his message never advanced like a righteous tempest through the Roman Empire the world would probably be at a kind of peace right now. The kind of peace where there is no conflict and no right and wrong. Where every child must submit to a sexual initiation in midnight wood with a strange man dressed up as a goat. The kind of world where a slave class made up of half of the world would exist, who would be literally owned by the local aristocracy and forced to wear chains around their feet. Conflict is a sign that there's still something left to fight for and the turmoil of this world shows us that they are still waging war on us because we are not yet completely under their control.

Conflict only comes because there is dispute but imagine a world, like that of the Greeks or Romans, were there was no such strongly sense of entrenched morality which Christianity has brought.

No idea of freedom, no idea of personal rights. Where a child for instance, can be sexually abused by an older man, not only with impunity but as a cultural expectation. Where madness and hysteria were part not only of the religious life and spiritual rites, but often also fully expressed in the most powerful rulers of the land, men who ruled a huge empire spanning thousands of miles and scores of languages and cultures, were completely mad.

Some writers have posited something called ‘Roman Emperor’ syndrome and explained the madness of several of the most famous Roman Emperors as a direct result of being emperor, that absolute power corrupts absolutely and that few men can remain sane given enough power. But what if somehow the Roman Emperors were offered the same deal that Jesus was offered, dominion over the kingdoms of the land if only he bowed to Satan, except that those who became Emperors were those who unlike Jesus, had accepted Satan's offer.

Perhaps Jesus too could have been something resembling a Roman Emperor, since one man is much like another, there seems to me to be little particularly remarkable about the type of men who rise to positions of great power, except for symptoms of madness and sometimes, something like a messianic zeal.
 
es%2Blebe%2Bdeutchland.jpg
The Messiah who said YES to Satan.

Hitler himself, saw himself in Messianic terms, and he too was once nothing but a second rate painter (who seemed to have a problem mastering perspective), an occasional homosexual and later, injured army corporal. But someone or something singled him out for greatness and temporary dominion. Something made a deal with him which he accepted.

 
hitler%2Bpainting.jpg
Hitler: A slight problem of perspective. 

What happened to Jesus is a perfect representation of the true nature of our world. It is a world which does not want to know or hear the truth. It is a world ruled by Satan and the easy self deception of people who will do the myriad small crimes required to maintain his dark kingdom on Earth, if only for a quiet comfortable life. But the world has been judged and found wanting and Jesus, the only righteous man to ever walk the Earth, was rejected by the Earth itself.

“Now is the judgement of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out; and I, when I am lifted up from the Earth, will draw all men to myself.”

We as a species, in the majority, seem to have this fatal flaw in our psychological makeup. This is only to apparent by the fact that people still engage with modern democracy, still work their jobs, pay their taxes and have children, when it is a known fact that politicians lie to us. We vote for them again and again, as long as their lies are not too obvious and are relatively well dissimulated. The populace will vote for a liar, but not for an obvious one which would reflect badly on their own confidence in him or her.

But we love lies and deception, fraud and fakery, because it is easier to believe in a lie and know it’s a lie, than to face the truth and risk being exposed by its light. 
And so humanity has learned to advance forward under the comforting shadow of reassuring lies they have learned to live with. The sure knowledge that whoever they vote into power will just continue the steady decline we all know has set-in, is preferable to being exposed to their own power and ability to take the reins of power and control their own destinies. 

Most people don’t want that because they just wouldn’t know where to begin. Being told what to do and how to exist on planet Earth, even under a million obvious contradictions and blatant injustices, allows most people to avoid the sight of total reality, because humanity has little to no knowledge of any kind of absolute reality or total truth and is in no means equipped to operate under these parameters. Some people however are and they attempt to do so. And as Bill Hicks pointed out, we tend to kill those people, not only because they threaten the institutions and power structures in place, but also because they make the general populace feel mentally uncomfortable, since dealing with the truth suddenly after being habituated to the comforting delusion of falsehood is tantamount to putting people in a forced stress position.

Few people will tolerate such discomfort for long and will rise up as one to remove the source of their torment. And so what happened to Jesus wasn’t a particular indictment against the Jewish people in particular, but an indictment perhaps, of any people, when faced with a truth which threatens their whole way of life and their continued ability to maintain that way of life. Jesus, despite being greeted and acclaimed by crowds sometimes numbering in the thousands, was still at the mercy of people’s general wish to follow the path of least resistance.

However the Jews it seems have taken it upon themselves to wage a two thousand year war on their own Messiah and the savior of humanity. The man who told the truth and for that, he had to die. Traditionally civilisations have always felt more comfortable creating their own Gods and when given a vision of God which doesn’t accord with the vision of their creation, they reject it. The Gods which human have created have tended to be brutal, jealous, destructive and capricious figures. Figures which judged humanity but which gave the comfort of exhibiting characteristics understandable to human nature. For thousands of years man created God in his own image, while writing holy books which deny the fact completely and pretend that God created man in his image.

The truth which arrived with Jesus’ ministry was not that God had created man in his image, but more that man had lost sight of God entirely, and what was worse was that the image of God man had created was almost entirely erroneous. Mankind had completely misunderstood the nature of God. It is mankind that feels the need to create rules and order and control other people, not God and this was why Jesus was at pains to say ‘that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.’

The God mankind had made celebrated war and massacre, of men, women and children alike. Whether the God or Gods of the Ancient Egyptians, the Greeks, The Germanic people, or the Jews. It is fair to say that none of these people had ever properly glimpsed the true nature of God, and if they did, then they scarcely publicized the fact.

The Buddha came close, but the impersonal nature of the universe from Buddha’s vision and his story of pain and suffering being the root of existence, seems to miss the flavor of the truth, and might be the kind of conclusions, a man who, once emerging from a strictly controlled environment of harmony and peace, and to leave that artificial illusory environment to see the real world for the first time and be suddenly struck with the brute force of those new impressions and the shattering of old lies and old illusions, which of course is precisely the story we are told about the Buddha. That he was a young prince, cossetted in his palace with the royal household in an artificial paradise beyond which he knew nothing else. Almost like the character from a Night Shyamalan film. The sudden loss of any sense of reality may indeed create the lasting impression that all is illusion indeed.

Jesus is the way the truth and the life and our suffering world of turmoil is because we are living in a spiritual war-zone. But the fact that they are still fighting to subjugate and control us, shows that we are still free and above all, we are free to find the truth of Jesus, but they have made the way very narrow indeed. Throwing away the TV might be the first step to accessing his Kingdom.

 

 

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