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QuodHumana

What is your view on abortion ?

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Posted (edited)

I was a christian before, and i always held the view of abortion is murder.

Being spiritual, i mostly hold that view, but of course it gets technical. But we need to be moral and not technical.

 

I asked the following question once on a spiritual forum: "When does the soul enter womb with regards to pregnancy?". I got many answers ranging from from conception, to about a second before birth. So, it can vary. 

 

I am open to the idea that you can abort the fetus before you hear a heartbeat. I've always also had the argument that abortion is murder except in the cases of rape. My next argument is/was the lady needs to report it as soon as possible, for her not be to pregnant or to "come clean" (for lack of a better term).

 

But look folks, this is such a loaded question, and i would like to think we are all or mostly spiritual people here, and thinking from a spiritual perspective, i would like to here more opinions, and i would definitely change my mind if someone has a compelling argument or answer.

Edited by QuodHumana

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Divaldo Franco,  Brazilian medium , channelled essay on the subject:

 

 

CRIMINAL ABORTION

Nothing can justify it.
     An abominable crime, criminal abortion is a cowardly means
used by weaker spirits to flee responsibility, incurring a grave
and not easily erasable state of guilt.
    Nevertheless, some countries have legalized all cases of
abortion with and without a fair reason-and we consider fair
reason all those cases of therapeutic abortion, medically
approved to save the mother's life.
    Statistics in such countries show an unexpectedly high index
of offence against the laws of nature. Yet it continues to be a
criminal attempt against the life of a defenceless creature. That
is why it should be considered one of the most hideous
aggressions against a human being ....
    Senseless advocates of criminal abortion come up with the
allegation that in the first few months there is no existence. Yet,
they fail to recognize that human life, in process of
development, is deserving of high respect. With the passing of
days, the fetus will be transformed into a man or woman who
deserves the opportunity of a bodily life, by divine decree.
    No one has the authority of cutting short the phenomenon of
life without incurring in painful debt from which he will not be
absolved without paying a heavy price ....
   No process of re-embodiment happens at random, nor is the
fertilization of sexual cells the work of chance. If this were the
case, it would be permissible for man to accept or reject the
situation.
    It is also claimed that the legalization of abortion is a healthy
measure, considering the great number of criminal practices that
endanger women's lives.
 
     A crime does not, in any way, justify its legalization to make
its illicit practice disappear.
     Life is divine property and cannot be lightly squandered.
Since people consent in bodily communion, it is expected
that they accept the responsibility of their act.
    Every action generates natural reactions, which gravitate
around their author.
    In considering further the problem of legal abortion, the laws
are indulgent whenever the fertilization occurs through rape ....
But even in such cases, to expel the fetus by means of abortion
does not, in any way, correct the damage that is already there
....
    Many times the Spirit that arrives under such painful
circumstances becomes a great blessing to the mother's agony
and oppressed heart.
    Self-denial with the purpose of saving another precious life
brings excellent ground for redemption to the victim of such
tragic destiny ....
T    he truth, however, is that the victim is expiating a debt and
advancing on the trail of abnegation and sacrifice to the
pinnacles of happiness.
    There are no incidents of injustice in the framework of Divine
Law, reaching some and excluding others ....
Abortion, therefore, even when accepted by human standards
and legalized, goes violently against divine laws. It continues to
be a crime for the person who practices it or submits to it.
    If legalized, it becomes accepted yet continues to be immoral.

    A Spirit whose return to Earth was blocked, will try again.
    A re-encounter will take place in the future between the
would-be-mother and the one whom she tried to avoid.
    The previous commitments between them, requiring
adjustment without delay, magnetically attracts them towards
each other. If there is lack of love, a process of mental illness
will take place, accompanied by other disorders of a complex
nature and difficult diagnosis.
   Thus you must favour life, no matter under what aspect it
manifests itself.
    Consider the liberating door of reincarnation. Advance to
higher levels of spiritual progress by offering the opportunity to
Spirits who seek your help, and trust in God. The Author of
Creation, Who watches over the birds of the air and the flowers
of the fields, will also watch over you, who are more valuable
than they. You are not forsaken or deprived of divine
assistance.
    There is no excuse whatsoever for a person who practices
criminal abortion, not withstanding the moral chaos that is
sweeping the Earth today.
    Every child is trusted to parents, who should love him and
prize this sacred opportunity to help him progress spiritually. In
due time, this being should be ready to return to his Celestial
Father.
    The criminal act of abortion should not become a stumbling
block in your spiritual progress. It should be avoided, even
when it results in difficulties and afflictions ....
    Every spiritual ascension demands a sacrificial task. But at
the summit's height there are promises of peace and beauty, as a
compensation for all your struggles. You will be honoured with
peace after liberating your conscience from debts and guilt.
    To kill, never!
 

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OK - here's a scenario for you. You are a single woman living in Russia under the old system. You and your long-term boyfriend are having sex regularly, using condoms - the pill is not available. One day the condom breaks and you find yourself pregnant. You have a regular job, which doesn't pay that well, but you're still living at home and contribute to the meagre family income. If you decide to have the child, then either you or your mother will have to give up work. There is also the added risk that the boyfriend, not wishing to be confronted with such problems, will disappear. Despite the fact that all the churches are closed and religion is officially banned, within the family the Christian faith still prevails and in the corner of your apartment is a small area which is, in effect, a shrine. There is no form of social security benefit for the child, so whatever household income there is will be diminished, not to mention the difficulties involved in buying all the requirements a baby brings with it. 

 

So there's the dilemma. Do you decide to have the baby and risk the social stigma - remember that you are an unmarried mother living in a block and everyone knows everyone - and the associated problems of bringing up a baby? Or do you go the doctor, ask them make an appointment at the abortion clinic with no questions asked and put it all down to experience?

 

Fast forward to 2020 and there is the pill, which is still difficult to obtain and unreliable. Foreign condoms are available, but expensive and the locally-made ones are no more reliable than they were before. Thus the risk of becoming inadvertently pregnant is a great as it always was. Worship at church is now allowed and the Christian Orthodox faith is widely embraced. The dilemma of the pregnant single female, however, has not changed. She has a reasonable job, as secure as a job can be, her income is important to the household and the risk that the boyfriend will do a runner is ever-present. There is a little social benefit available to help in bringing up the child, but certainly nowhere near enough to cover the costs, so you would have to rely on your parents for help. The equipment required for bringing up the baby is available, more and better than before, but most of it is imported and therefore expensive. Finally, what will be the parents' reaction to all this, even in the 21st century, given the strong resurgence of religion?

 

Let me close by telling you of the experience of a Russian lady I knew. She had exactly the experience outlined in the first paragraph, except that she was not living at home. It happened three times. On the third occasion, the doctor told her that because she'd already had two abortions, if she had a third, there was a strong chance that she would never be able to have children. She was 37 at the time and unmarried. She decided to keep the baby. Predictably, the boyfriend did a runner and her parents were reluctant to help her. (She lived in Moscow and her parents lived about 300 miles away). She of course had to give up her job.  She tried working from home, but this is not a common concept in Russia and she found it difficult. She managed to get by for many years until her child, a girl, became a teenager. Then the problems started. She was not like 'other girls' in school, her mother did not have money for her to go on trips or buy the latest clothes or electronic gadgets. To cut a long story short, the child has now been taken off her by social services. 

 

I have narrated one example, but I know of many others, not just in Russia, but in the fiercely Roman Catholic countries of South America, where of course the stigma is even greater. I am a man, so I would not begin to pretend to understand a woman's feeling on this matter. I am simply recounting the experiences, as told to me, of other women. All I will say is that in the west, there is no stigma to bringing up a baby alone and there are plenty of support groups and financial assistance is available. This no doubt colours the judgement of women who find themselves in this situation. 

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Posted (edited)

it's difficult to pontificate on this topic unless you're the one in that position but since the question was asked i would not oppose abortion in cases of rape, incest and if the mothers' life was in danger.

 

but you can't force someone to give birth. and even criminalising it is wrong.

 

it's all about education, support and free contraception.

Edited by Given To Fly
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Someone else's body is no one else's business. Anymore than someone should be able to tell you that you have to get a vaccination to save other people's lives.

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4 hours ago, Tamlinn said:

Someone else's body is no one else's business. Anymore than someone should be able to tell you that you have to get a vaccination to save other people's lives.

 

Agreed. I may not agree with it but i wouldn't try to stop anyone or make it easy for them. People have to live with their own stupidity

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As with everything nothing is black and white and in the end it just depends on someone's circumstances.

 

My sister did IVF 9 times before she died at 51 of a melanoma and all she wanted was children.

 

She couldn't get her head around people having abortions but even with that, I think it has to be up to the person, and their reasons why...

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Surely, there are spiritual consequences to abortion ? But i don't know what they are. Not picking sides. Just my thoughts.

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On another thread I asked the question...

Why was it that during lockdown medical examinations and procedures were cancelled, yet abortion clinics remained open?

I checked one UK abortion website and this particular group alone had "over 60 clinics open for business".

At the same time I know a couple of people who have potentially life -threatening illnesses that have basically been abandoned during lockdown.

So it appears that terminating life is a necessity yet saving life is not.

Is this not a classic case of the 'inversion' which David Icke talks about?

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2 minutes ago, Storm in the garden said:

On another thread I asked the question...

Why was it that during lockdown medical examinations and procedures were cancelled, yet abortion clinics remained open?

I checked one UK abortion website and this particular group alone had "over 60 clinics open for business".

At the same time I know a couple of people who have potentially life -threatening illnesses that have basically been abandoned during lockdown.

So it appears that terminating life is a necessity yet saving life is not.

Is this not a classic case of the 'inversion' which David Icke talks about?

 

As usual I have no 'reactions' to give, but I think you've hit the nail on the head.

 

My own point of view is that I can see some circumstances when it should be an option, but for it to be a lifestyle choice, whereby some choose not to practice contraception because it's relatively easy to abort, I hate it.

 

I'm  not putting a link in, because I find it repugnant, but I recently watched a video from America, where a young trainee nurse was whistle blowing about it, and there was film footage backing up what she was saying. She left the profession because of what she 'd witnessed. Women almost at full term have been routinely allowed to have abortions, and the babies have come out very definitely alive. There's the lie being pushed by practitioners that the fetuses don't feel pain, yet that flies in the face of basic physiological facts which show that the nerve system is formed very early on in gestation. To my mind, this can only be allowed as part of the Satanic agenda. 

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2 minutes ago, Tinfoil Hat said:

 

As usual I have no 'reactions' to give, but I think you've hit the nail on the head.

 

My own point of view is that I can see some circumstances when it should be an option, but for it to be a lifestyle choice, whereby some choose not to practice contraception because it's relatively easy to abort, I hate it.

 

I'm  not putting a link in, because I find it repugnant, but I recently watched a video from America, where a young trainee nurse was whistle blowing about it, and there was film footage backing up what she was saying. She left the profession because of what she 'd witnessed. Women almost at full term have been routinely allowed to have abortions, and the babies have come out very definitely alive. There's the lie being pushed by practitioners that the fetuses don't feel pain, yet that flies in the face of basic physiological facts which show that the nerve system is formed very early on in gestation. To my mind, this can only be allowed as part of the Satanic agenda. 

 

I was about to say similar.

A while back when the whole 5G debate was in the forefront of peoples minds, I did a search of the Green Party website. 

The Green Party are the front runners in pushing the whole Agenda 21/30 policy, so I was curious to see if they had a stance on 5G.

5G didn't get a mention on the entire site, despite the fact that thousands of trees were going to be cut down to facilitate the roll-out. You would think the 'Greens' would want to save the trees and the birds right? 

Also conspicuous by it's absence was any mention of things such as fracking or vaccines...hmm!

Climate change was everywhere on the site obviously, but what I hadn't expected to be featured was the amount of abortion coverage.

Eight different articles were about abortion, all of them lamenting the fact that there weren't enough abortion clinics available.

So yes, I would reckon that abortion is part of the inversion agenda.

(Incidentally, I subsequently emailed the Globalist Green Party asking them what their policy was regarding 5G.....I never got a reply!)

 

 

 

 

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Abortion is murder.

But only someone who has purity can follow such rules.

Our society is in chaos so murder is normal, these people understand nothing whatsoever and you cannot stop their insanity - they destroy themselves, each other, the planet, and their children.  How then shall you judge them for more insanity.

As for why a soul incarnates into a child that will be aborted ?
Who can say, but existence knows what it is doing.

Many souls have evil pasts, some need to suffer in order to grow, some humans have almost no soul, some souls can benefit with earnest effort even if their lives are very short.

 

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